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| should i have called after calling the flop? | |
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binny69 JUNIOR
Posts : 164 Join date : 2014-10-17 Location : China
| Subject: should i have called after calling the flop? Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:41 pm | |
| should i have just folded preflop and not completed? should i have folded the flop? then once calling the flop do i then need to call the turn allin?
PokerStars Hand #123574532509: Tournament #1012700733, $0.23+$0.02 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2014/10/20 23:17:38 CCT [2014/10/20 11:17:38 ET] Table '1012700733 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: daniel.bin69 (9195 in chips) Seat 2: Alda51 (23035 in chips) Seat 4: Krulis18 (7815 in chips) Seat 5: penske 20 (21866 in chips) Seat 6: Leon6351 (5589 in chips) daniel.bin69: posts the ante 50 Alda51: posts the ante 50 Krulis18: posts the ante 50 penske 20: posts the ante 50 Leon6351: posts the ante 50 daniel.bin69: posts small blind 300 Alda51: posts big blind 600 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to daniel.bin69 [7d Td] Krulis18: folds penske 20: folds Leon6351: folds daniel.bin69: raises 600 to 1200 Alda51: calls 600 *** FLOP *** [Ad 3d 3s] daniel.bin69: bets 1325 Alda51: raises 1325 to 2650 daniel.bin69: calls 1325 *** TURN *** [Ad 3d 3s] [Qs] daniel.bin69: checks | |
| | | ravenrage Moderator / SENIOR
Posts : 157 Join date : 2013-11-24 Location : Memphis, TN, USA
| Subject: Re: should i have called after calling the flop? Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:57 pm | |
| when you min-raise the bb, you are giving him both the odds to call and effectively the button. Also, since he's a huge stack, this makes the likelihood of his folding even smaller to a min-raise. A move i like to use preflop is to limp the sb, then min-bet the flop. It works a large % of the time, and risks fewer chips than a 3x preflop bvb raise. On the flop, you are so short that I think you should either check or shove; the bet gets you very close to committing yourself esp if a blank falls on the turn. I personally like the shove best, since you are putting all the pressure on the bb, and you likely have at least 9 if not 15 outs if he calls you down. As for the turn, I think either a shove or a check/shove both work. Unfortunately, you are fairly crippled at this point if you fold, and the bb likely realizes that, so you just gotta get it in there and hope he doesnt have the A he's repping | |
| | | binny69 JUNIOR
Posts : 164 Join date : 2014-10-17 Location : China
| Subject: Re: should i have called after calling the flop? Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:39 am | |
| thanks for the advice mate, i am always confused when it comes to blind v blind conrfrontations, (unless i have obviously). whats a decent starting range for shoving the small and calling from the bb to a small blind shove? what hands should i just throw away and which should i just limp and bet the flop with? | |
| | | ravenrage Moderator / SENIOR
Posts : 157 Join date : 2013-11-24 Location : Memphis, TN, USA
| Subject: Re: should i have called after calling the flop? Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:17 am | |
| Fairly tricky question there w/ lots of differing opinions. First off, base your shoves on a combo of your stack size, opponents perceived calling range, and hand strength. However, if the effective stack size is > 10 or so, I prefer a limp play. It amazes me how often it works, but a simple pre limp followed by a flop min-bet works for me about 3/4 of the time. The full risk is only 2bb (1 pre, 1 on flop) vs 3bb total if you are outright stealing (I've found that min-bet steals only work for me about 1/10 times, so i'd say to prob never min raise bvb). So, if you do the math on limp vs steal using my 3/4 success rate, you win 3bb for every 2 you lose, and that doesnt factor the times you end up winning bvb when you get resistance.
As for range, that is a function of opponent calling range and stubborness to defend his bb. If I have an opponent who lets me limp the sb, then i literally will play any 2 cards since my play doesnt depend on what i have. If he resists, i fold, plain and simple. Here's the key, I limp 100% of my range. The table will see me doing this, and will never ever suspect i'm ever strong there, since limping bvb is a very weak looking play. Inevitably, sooner or later you will get a bb who raises the limp while you're holding a premium hand. Since they've seen you make the limp play so often, they will never believe you are strong and will give you their entire stack. The last thing i'll mention is that late in tourneys or when I am shortstacked, I abandon the limp play and either just shove or fold. As for the shoving range at that point, if my cards are stronger than 50% of his calling range, then i'm shoving. | |
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